Cranial Nerves- More Than an Assessment for Concussions
Missy Bunch joins me today to chat a bit about how an area of the brain stem is responsible for inhibiting pain, a concept that I learned in her MovementIQ Mentorship program.
Missy is my go to resource when I need help with my athletes and with my own body. Previously a Master Trainer with Z-Health Performance, Missy teaches healthcare and wellness professionals how to implement the basics of neurology and pain science to get long lasting results for their patients and clients.
Many of us who are ATs or PTs have learned the cranial nerves and traditional cranial nerve assessments as part of a concussion assessment- and now, you can put that knowledge to use to help patient out of pain, improve mobility, and improve strength.
The cranial nerves are just a small piece of what she teaches in her mentorship which is open for enrollment until August 16th. Check it out here: https://www.missybunch.com/miq
Connect with Missy on IG: https://www.instagram.com/missybunch15/
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Hey there, and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman, and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs and the nervous system on movement, pain, and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.
Anna Hartman: Hello, hello. Uh, welcome to another episode of the Unreal Results podcast. It's a special one. I have a guest. Um, a guest and one of my besties, Missy Bunch, is here with me. I know I, like, advertised my podcast as not gonna have guests, and lately I've had some guests. So, but that's the thing, like, when you do your own thing, you can do whatever the heck you want.
And I want to have Missy on here, because she is my go to person to help me with my athletes and with my own body when I need to take someone out of pain, or take myself out of pain, or I get to a spot that I feel like I've tried everything and I'm hitting, uh, roadblock. Um, yeah, I call Missy up to help me.
So, I'll let her do kind of a little background, but in general, uh, we met. Like right after I moved to San Diego, we met via Instagram. She shared on Instagram live the other day, I slid into her DMS and asked her out on a date, which is not wrong. I didn't have any friends and I was looking for friends.
And I was like, wait, this girl lives in San Diego too. Like I want to go to coffee. And we went to coffee and we started talking about what we did. And it was crazy because we Basically, we're talking about the same thing, have the same lens of view of how the body works. But we had two completely different ways, not, I wouldn't say completely different, two different tools that we use to get to treating it and getting the results.
And so we were intrigued among other things that were just very serendipitous in our life that lined up. And we're like, Oh my gosh, we need to be best friends. So, and then over the years. Like I said, I started using her when my body hurt. And then once I was like, Hmm, I want you to look at this athlete. I want you to look at this athlete.
I just started to pull her in. So, and then two through movement rev education, so many of my participants and my mentorship and in the LTAP level one and in the swelling course have. gone on to do your mentorship too, or vice versa. People who've done your education has gone on to do my mentorship. And so we share so many people now, and I just think it's so cool that they're getting such a robust toolbox in this new lens of view, looking at the viscera and the nervous system and what a huge role they play in helping people function better, feel better, and like perform.
Welcome, Missy.
Missy Bunch: Thank you so much. It's so cool to hear you tell our story, you know, um, and I'm now, you know, a couple of years later, I'm now getting messages from people saying, well, how do I describe what I do if I'm a movement rev Missy bunch student person? And it's cracking me up cause it's happening more often now that they are filtering through both.
Yes. And they're now having a hard time telling people what they do because they're like, I'm just, I'm not just a massage therapist, or I'm not just a physical therapist. Not that you're a just anyways, but they, they now say like the movement, red movement, red methods and your methods. What? Who am I anymore?
You know, I'm
Anna Hartman: like, this is
Missy Bunch: amazing. This is an amazing problem.
Anna Hartman: It is an amazing problem, you know, and this is like why, you know, spoiler alert, I've been telling some people, but like, probably in 2024, I'm going to be rolling out certifications because yeah, people want, people want to have a name for it.
And then also people want to find those people. Like I have so many people that reach out to me and like, do you know anybody in this town? And so I want to be able to know who to refer to. And so with that said, I think we need to do a master certification above both of our. To like encompass those people, like, how cool would that be?
So that's something to think about, which again, just comes back to the point of, we need to create like a phase two of our mentorships, like how to blend them together. Yeah, that's not what we're here to talk about, but
Missy Bunch: we're not, we're not having a business meeting on the podcast. Okay.
Anna Hartman: But also there's a need
Missy Bunch: for it.
But also, yes. Well too, when schedules fill up and you're traveling and I'm booked, you know, someone tried to get a private with me and they were like, End of September. Really? It's not even August yet. And I was like, I, sorry, I, I, I, you know what I mean? Cause I'm taking care of my colleagues, peers, athletes, gen pop, all the, you know, so it's, it's nice.
Um, but it would be nice to just go, you know what? I trust this person, go to them and have, have a roster ready. In, in, in both of our
Anna Hartman: ecosystems, you know, yeah, we're creating it.
Missy Bunch: Yeah. So it's, that's an interesting, um, angle on it. And the whole other thing about you and I meeting, you know, when you were talking about us, our first date, I can feel now how I felt then looking across the table at you, we're in this beautiful plants everywhere.
I thought you were saying I was beautiful. Yes, that's it, obviously. I was taken
Anna Hartman: aback by your beauty.
Missy Bunch: Um, this is very true. Obviously why we're still dating. Obviously. And then we got into our personal lives. And that got, that just got weird. Yeah. You, you know, we start talking, wait, what? You have, oh, you have a sister?
Your sister had brain surgery?
Anna Hartman: My sister had brain surgery.
Missy Bunch: What? My Yeah. Your mom passed away from cancer? I mean, it just was It was a very bizarre connection. It's almost like we had these frequencies and wavelengths going, right? And there was no way we weren't gonna meet? Yeah. In this lifetime? Or something?
It just It was just a really wi I I've never had a meet. Like that, you know, where it was just so comfortable from the moment we met. Like, I just, considering my family now, I just, I'm like, Hey, there's Auntie Anna. So it's just, it, it's just wild. Sadly,
Anna Hartman: the patio on Lamont is now closed. Yeah, that was the restaurant or the bar we went to.
Missy Bunch: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I did a photo shoot there once. That's gone. Okay. Um, okay. How can I contribute to your
Anna Hartman: community? Well, I wanted to bring you on to one. Talk about your mentorship that's coming up, which we'll get to, but then also because I find myself on the podcast and in my courses, oftentimes trying to explain things that I've learned from you and how it connects to what I teach.
And then I'm like, you know what, I might as well just have Missy on to talk about it. And so, um. I want you to share probably, you know, the biggest, like, I mean, a lot of it's eye opening. So, so, background too, I have taken Missy's mentorship and, you know, I think it is amazing and I took it in, like, round one or two and so it's changed even more since then.
Uh, she just keeps on making it more amazing and, um, Obviously, too, I get to pull her in on clients a lot and, um, it's just really cool to see you put into action. And I think the most powerful one, why I've pulled you in on most people is like, I can make their mobility better. I can usually take their pain away.
And their strength's good, like I'm good at all the normal stuff. But every once in a while I run into somebody who's like, I've done all the things and their pain still sticks. So I had a football player, uh, specifically. Uh, two years ago who was like dealing with ACL rehab and like we were doing all the things and he just still had this like one little pain piece that wasn't like we couldn't touch it.
And so finally I was like, I want to bring Missy in because I know that she can decrease your pain because I learned in her mentorship, there's like a A serious laundry list of things that you can do to influence the area of the brainstem that is directly responsible for inhibiting pain. And that in itself, I think, was probably the most mind blowing part of your mentorship.
Like the one little nugget. And you teach this on the internet, like on Instagram too. It's not like you, this is, this is not knowledge reserved to your mentorship. Right. But that there is legitimately an area of the brain that is responsible for inhibiting pain. What? Like, we have a built in pain reliever.
And, and it's like, I get it. Like, I knew that from, like, a standpoint of, like, there's neurochemicals that get relief. You know, endorphins and beta alkaline encephalons and all the things that get released in your brain from an opiate standpoint for general pain control. But that seemed like such a chemical response in response to other sensory things going on in the body.
But understanding that there was an area specifically of your brain stem that you could influence through movement and through other experiences that could also inhibit pain in a different way than the chemicals. It was like, you know, amazing. And maybe I don't understand the chemical route correctly, but I feel like the chemicals are being summoned from different areas of the cortex.
But also I don't understand, I don't understand. This is why I have you here, and you might not know that either.
Missy Bunch: Let's be, I'm not a chemical queen. Right.
Anna Hartman: But, well, and that's the thing too, is like, okay, maybe, maybe those endorphins and decathlons are coming from the messages from the part of the brain stem that is inhibiting pain and.
Right now we know how to stimulate them through let's say dry needling but how cool is it that we could do it through cranial nerve exercises or Mm
Missy Bunch: hmm at the same time that you do dry needling. Exactly. Or before and after like a little sandwich or yes,
Anna Hartman: however it is. So that's like what I want to talk about mainly on this episode, you know to keep Give us something tangible to learn and take home is understanding that and, um, then we can kind of just see where conversation goes.
So I'll let you take it away. And also too, um, because you didn't at the beginning when I told you to take it away, give a little background of, um, where this knowledge comes from in your brain and how you found it and that kind of thing
Missy Bunch: too. Okay. I didn't, I wanted to talk about our love story because it was important.
Um, I had all the, I had all the feels and I needed to express it. Okay. So, um, yeah. Okay. So how I got here, what's going on. So yeah, I mean, obviously I'm not in this because everything went really well.
Anna Hartman: I had no
Missy Bunch: pain. I a hundred million years ago I was dancing and had a knee injury. And let's
Anna Hartman: clarify dancing.
Sometimes when you say dancing, people are like, what was she doing? Were you a stripper? No.
Missy Bunch: I mean, you never know.
Anna Hartman: I'll just leave it at that. She was a professional dancer for an NBA basketball team.
Missy Bunch: Yes, so some people think it's cheerleading and we're always like, it's not cheerleading. We are dancers
Anna Hartman: Yeah, there are different things.
There are cheerleaders and there are dancers.
Missy Bunch: We get very, we're like pretty offended because we're not just like, you know Doing we're literally learning choreography, right?
Anna Hartman: Honestly, I think the cheerleaders are probably offended when they get called dancers like because they're doing something different too.
So like they're
Missy Bunch: doing Really hard things in a
Anna Hartman: different way, but also I think it's important for people to realize when you said you were a dancer earlier in your life, it's one. You weren't in the ballet, like, you know, the professional ballet. And then also you were not a stripper because they think strippers sometimes say that they were dancers.
Missy Bunch: In a past life. Oh God. Okay. I should probably start clarifying this. One, I'm 4'11 Ballet is not suitable for my body type. Um, two, definitely not a stripper. Um, might've tried it by myself a couple of times. Didn't go very well. Um. So, yeah, I was a trained dancer, actually in modern dance to be specific. I have a dance degree from San Francisco State, um, and I did choreography and performance there and, um, I was trying to think what else?
Yeah, I did modern. Modern was for my soul. That was where, like, I actually expressed. Myself how people write or paint but my skill set was in hip hop, right? So I got paid to do that because getting paid to do modern is Extremely challenging right and even if you did it would be like peanuts. Yeah And rehearsals are hard and long and all the things.
So anyway, so that's how I got into More hip hop dance, and yeah, it was for an NBA team. Hurt my knee on the court. Spent a really long time trying to figure, figure out my knee pain, and I'm younger. I have less tools. There's less resources. The internet wasn't super available at that time. This is my early 20s, and I was teaching boot camp classes, so I was the chick teaching like four classes a day, like rah rah,
Anna Hartman: work
Missy Bunch: harder, you know, and I I meet someone who, she was also a dancer, a salsa dancer.
Um, she, I met someone who took a Z health course and it was, she said it was actually like a CD or something. I mean, this is a long time ago. She put like a CD into her car or somewhere and she starts learning. These very unconventional ways of thinking from Dr. Cobb who created sea Health and he actually started creating this stuff in his basement, just like messing around with things and being a chiropractor.
And he is a really cool story. He was a semi-pro tennis player and a Marshall artist and he trained SWAT team people. He's really, it's really interesting story. But, um, she starts to learn that during gait. The force production from your left heel goes up through the posterior leg, goes across to the opposite side, this whole opposing joints thing that she had never heard of.
And she's explaining this to me, like, your left leg moves with your right arm during gait. And it was, it was the most logical thing I had heard about what I was dealing with. Right, because everyone was saying, your knee, I got imaging done, they're like, your knee's fine. Right.
Anna Hartman: Right, and they were probably telling you your glutes were weak and your quads.
My glutes
Missy Bunch: are weak, your quads this. Strengthen your calves, do all the things, right? And I was thinking, I hear this opposing joint concept for the first time. And it really, it really resonated. I mean, it shook my, shook me to my soul, right? And then it worked. Right. Actually, I tell the story in a vague way, but I'm going to tell you the real story.
I was in an elevator and she texted me what to do with my right elbow. Like that's the actual story. And I'm reading and she's like, stick your right arm out and get into the position that you hurt your knee in. So I get into this kind of. anterior lunge. I do a couple elbow circles on my right elbow with left leg loaded.
I'm reading the text, put the phone back in the purse. I'm at Nordstrom's in San Francisco. The gold doors open. I walk out, I'm in the shoe department. I'm like trying to find this knee pain. Right. I'm like loading into it. And I'm like, what the, how did I
Anna Hartman: leave my knee pain in the elevator? I kind
Missy Bunch: of like, yeah, like a magic
Anna Hartman: elevator.
Missy Bunch: I love this elevator. So I, I mean, imagine how, I mean, I, I step out, I'm like jumping on my leg. I S this, I start crying. I'm so overwhelmed and I'm. I'm very angry. Also, while I'm, while I'm ecstatic, I'm just like, why did that work? That was so stupid. Hi, that can't be true. This can't be true. And so I, I'm like jumping around in the shoe department, like trying to find this paint.
Cause I was so irritated that it worked. Right. And I had done so, I mean, so simple. Yeah. She wasn't even there. I was in, it was a text. Obviously I already knew the movement prior to, but anyways, that's, that's what happened. And so obviously after that, I just, I think I called her. I don't know what happened.
It blocked out probably. And I was just like, what is this called? It's called Z health. Okay. Where are they? Who are they? What is this thing? I find out they're in Arizona. Great. I'm so glad that wasn't like in, China or something like, cause I would have gone, but it was just in Arizona. So I went as often as I could for as many years as I could.
And now they're only online, but at the time it was, you know, we walked uphill on the snow type of thing. Like the certification books were like this thick. Four day long certifications and just the whole thing. Like when I, when I, um, did my master trainer program with them, I don't know what it's called anymore, but you know, you do these rapid fire tests and you're getting judged.
They just sit there and they go, okay, Missy, um, talk about the back force transmission system for two minutes. Go.
Anna Hartman: Or like
Missy Bunch: Missy cranial nerves go. So they, the coaching was, here's the cert
Anna Hartman: book. Yeah. Learn it and come
Missy Bunch: back. We should be able to open it. Point. And you should be able to talk about it proficiently and eloquently with examples and stories and all the things for two whole minutes without stopping. That was the test cue, the testing, right?
Rapid fire along with all the anatomy stuff too, right? But, um, that, that testing experience was what kind of. It, you had to test well, and I think you had to get like a 91% or more on everything. So you couldn't pass with like C's, which like, I'm like a B type of student from school, you know, not like a A C.
Anna Hartman: Just, no, it was like
Missy Bunch: 91% or above or something. That's what I remember. It might've been 96. Anyways. Um, so I just, I declared that I was gonna learn everything I could from this company for as long as I can and teach it to everyone because. If I didn't know this and I was in the movement world, what is a normal person going to do when they have knee pain?
Right. They're not going to stick their arm out and do elbow circles, I'll tell you that. Unless I tell them. So, it was basically just like this little truth bomb that I couldn't pretend to not know. Yeah. And it led me down a very odd path and it was very weird. I was just talking to Megan about this yesterday.
I was... A female in fitness and I was always in the gym with males doing three sets of 10 and all the things, and I'm in the corner doing eye exercises, four 11 female and it's, I was much younger then, so the confidence was, Much smaller. And I still have, I mean, you know, as I still have to work on this all the time, but, um, it's been an interesting road, you know, now I'm like, you have to do exercises.
Are you, I actually, are you crazy? But back then I was like, um, I kind of learned that like your eyes matter and like, they will help you. I don't, you want to try them?
Anna Hartman: Cause they're like, well,
Missy Bunch: weird to be like, you got to move your eye. Like it was just a weird thing to bring to the table. 13 years ago. Yeah.
Like people weren't Googling
Anna Hartman: stuff about this. But, I mean, you and me both know, like, when it's a weird thing that then gets immediate results, people are like, I don't care what you just did, but let's do more of it. Yes,
Missy Bunch: exactly.
Anna Hartman: And me. Because at the end of the day, people want the results. They don't really care about the methods that you use to get there.
They just want to feel better. Right. They just want to feel better. And honestly, if you can feel better without doing a million exercises, Who doesn't want that? People don't want more work to do. I can guarantee
Missy Bunch: it. Yeah, fact. Yeah. That's the other thing that also upset me when I started learning all the neuro stuff.
Because I'm a dancer, it was very... It hurt my ego to learn that I don't have to stretch for two hours. Get increased range of motion. I was, I was genuinely
Anna Hartman: offended, but that's so that I love that. Cause I actually say that to people. When I teach, I say, because I, you know, and this is why you, you couldn't.
Ignore it because it challenged a deeply held belief you had about what was required to feel better, feel good, move well, perform well. It really challenged that. It challenged some really strongly, deeply held beliefs. And once you feel that dissonance, it, you cannot ignore it.
Missy Bunch: It feels, it was a toe touch.
Yeah. Yeah. It was a toe touch for me. I mean, So it's like, I want
Anna Hartman: to offend people. I
Missy Bunch: know, right? Yeah. Be skeptical. Try it. Yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, one of my first certs with them. It was, you know, we do these active range of motion tests, just flop forward. Okay, I move my talocalcaneal joint three reps.
And my palms hit the floor instead of my fingertips. And I was, I came back up and I was like,
Anna Hartman: you're like, what the fuck? Yeah. It's an explicit podcast. You can cuss by the way.
Missy Bunch: Well, you know, I don't. So, but yeah, it just, it was, man, those are a couple of the toe touch, the elbow, the knee. I mean, I've had so many of these moments where.
I can't ignore it. I was very challenged. And so it's great that I have a background of, I thought stretching was like going to cure the world type of person, like, you know what I mean?
Anna Hartman: Like dancer, I get it. Like I did gymnastics. It was the same, a lot. It was like 45 minutes of stretching and 45 minutes of strength.
Minimum. Yeah. Every day, a hundred percent
Missy Bunch: every day. Then rehearsal.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. Yep.
Missy Bunch: Yeah, then do the thing. Yeah, so it think about how offensive it was, right? Like I'm like you just are you saying I didn't have to train that hard? Yeah, cuz that was a lot of hours reps. So here we are, you know, here we are doing the thing.
Anna Hartman: Now you do the thing and share it with the world. And I love it. So let's share that fundamental piece of great.
Missy Bunch: So here's the deal. So, you know, the, it's kind of my new, it's kind of my new thing. It's, I'm really passionate about that cranial nerves. Are most likely the missing link to the journey you're on right this second, right?
Not the only missing link, but, but one of them that could be making a huge difference because we aren't taught about them. We don't know how to utilize them. Neurologists know how to assess them, but they don't know how to apply it in a way that's functional and applicable and practical and relevant.
Right? So there's all these. The missing pieces are like taking the neurology and actually making it useful. There's a lot I don't know about the brain, but I do know how to use a cranial nerve to help someone move better, feel better, decrease their pain type of thing. So what Anna was talking about earlier with the brainstem, right, that's where autonomics are housed.
That's your old lizard brain. It's very illogical. And if you can, I don't want to say manipulate. If you can affect. The things in there, they greatly affect you globally, muscle tone, sympathetics, pain, inhibition, you know, think things like that. And it's, it's a really interesting and beautiful thing to be presented.
And how simple it is. If I tell you the brainstem can alter your experience of pain and you think to yourself, well, what's in the brainstem? And I say cranial nerves. And then you say, well, what kind, which ones Google them, right? Like you just, so it's just, it's simple. Once you're presented it to, yeah.
Like once you know about it, right. So I just say cranial nerves and then you could, you could literally just pull your phone out and go, what are cranial nerves? Let me do those. Well,
Anna Hartman: and I think too, like part of the mind blowing part about this for me, when I went over it was as a allied healthcare professional, much like the.
neurologists you're talking about, like we're taught how to assess the cranial nerves in from an assessment standpoint of like making sure someone who has suffered like a traumatic brain injury or a stroke, like what their function is. And we haven't, we didn't even, when you're assessing them, you're not even assessing like the quality.
So it's, it's kinda like when we learned how to assess movement, like it was like, can you squat or not? And then it was like this whole, like, well, how do you, what's the quality of your squat? Like what's the, well, how, what is your shin angle? Like, what is your posture? Like, is your, like an overhead squat, like FMS, like is the Dow within the base of your feet?
It, you know, so it's like. A neurologist and how we're taught at least as athletic trainers and probably physical therapists too when you're assessing like post TBI is like can, can your, can your, um, optic nerve, you know, can your iris dilate, can you dilate and, um, constrict?
Missy Bunch: Right. Can
Anna Hartman: you stick your tongue out without it going?
If you said no, we have a problem. Right. Can you open up your mouth? Can you lift your shoulders up? Can you move your eyes? Can you track? Can you hear? It's like assessing baseline function to make sure that you don't have a, a serious, uh, life threatening or emergent brain lesion, period. And we've never really looked at like, what's the quality?
Because these cranial nerves are, are responsible for motor and sensory stuff. But like, how well is the motor functioning? How good is the sensory information? And just like any other sensory and motor thing in the body, we can improve the information. And when you improve the information, you get a better output.
And part of that output is pain control or sympathetic control or muscle tone or movement. And so it's just it's just one of those things that it's like it was. Also, learning from you was like, wow, I've had all this knowledge of my cran of the cranial nerves drilled into my head for the last 20 plus years as an athletic trainer because like, they're, like, you get tested on it, you know, because it's part of a concussion.
test, which is really important, but we've never considered them in the role they play in just general everyday movement and pain. And so that was like, Oh, I finally have use for this knowledge in my head because most athletic trainers, thank God, you know, thank, thankfully, most of the time, one of your athletes gets a concussion, everything tests out fine because the majority of the people who get concussions at first, everything's fine.
And when you're just looking at. basic function. Yes. And so you're kind of like, why did I even learn this assessment? Because everybody seems fine, but they still have post concussion syndrome. That's when you understand when you can look at the quality of the assessment, the quality of the responses, then you can start to shift even that post concussion syndrome, because now you're treating the cranial nerves, if that makes sense.
Like, that's like, uh, totally.
Missy Bunch: It's different. It's taking the assessment. And turning it into rehabilitation for
Anna Hartman: that person. Well, and quality versus checking a box of is it working or not.
Missy Bunch: Yes. And that's, you know, I've seen it obviously because my sister has had brain surgery. I've sat in on her follow ups and they do, they do all the things.
It takes about three minutes. The, the quality of their assessment is poor. It's not good.
Anna Hartman: Exactly. They're literally like... Because again, they're looking at basic
Missy Bunch: function. Just, are you functioning like, are you, right? Do you need dire care right this second type of thing? And if
Anna Hartman: you're not functioning, they're like, okay, just noting that.
Like my sister, same thing with her brain surgery. Like, uh, she fails all the vestibular things. And like, and rumpers, it And they're just like, sorry, that's how it is. Bye. I'm like, what? Like you could give her exercises based on it. Yeah.
Missy Bunch: How about that? That's the weirdest thing, right? So we are, we're leaving Stanford after Shauna's surgery, my sister.
And it was like this, it was like, here's a packet. Bye .
Anna Hartman: Good luck with your life. I, I
Missy Bunch: mean it,
Anna Hartman: I, I remember being like, same with my sister. Like, are we, and part of it is like, they're like, they're a neurosurgeon especially is like, once I do surgery on you like. I did what I did. I did my
Missy Bunch: job. Yeah. You're welcome.
Which is wonderful and amazing. You're
Anna Hartman: welcome. Please address my Christmas card to this address, like, because you should be thankful that I did good surgery on you because you're still alive. Exactly. Which they're not wrong. God bless them. No. Like,
Missy Bunch: you're, our sisters are alive because
Anna Hartman: of brain surgery.
But then they're like, oh, if you have any problems go to the neurologist, but then the neurologist is like, well, I can't give you medicine for this. Right. Or what do you want me to do? That's what they usually say. What do you want it?
Missy Bunch: And they're like, My, I see double
Anna Hartman: vision. What the hell do you do? Yeah.
Missy Bunch: I know it's same with simple example with my knee, right?
Like your imaging's fine. Takes in 600 milligrams of ibuprofen a day, blah blah. I'm like, but my knee hurts. Yeah. I want to dance.
Anna Hartman: Well, and this is getting on the tangent, but it's like, man, wouldn't it be so much better if the neurologist, or in that case, the orthodoctor, would just look at you and be like, I'm sorry you're having pain and I really don't know what to do at this point, but let's figure it out together.
Let's find the right person to figure it out for ya. And then they would refer to You would just feel like so geeky to you, or a physical therapist, or an outsider trainer, and it's like, when you're not promising people a timeline or a result, like, I'm like, a lot of the times people just want to be like, Yeah, isn't it weird that I feel this way?
And the doctor needs to check the box that you're not dying. And there's nothing that they can do surgically, and of course there's a pharmaceutical usually always that they want to give you, but to be realistic, I'm pretty like, this is not going to change things for you. Yeah, it's, it's helping you cope, which is great.
And sometimes they don't know, like, it's, like, that's the thing, like, well, and this is when the ego just gets, Part of it is like, they're so, so locked into the ego, they have a hard time admitting when they don't know something. So instead of admitting they don't know something, they just pretend they know it all, and then they're like, It's
Missy Bunch: tough.
You're over it. Yeah, because that's the, the upbringing of them. It's their environment, their social, everything. It's like, they're trained. I get it. Surgeons are, yeah, and again, love them to death. I mean,
Anna Hartman: and of course, not all of them are like that. Right, but also a lot of them are like that.
Missy Bunch: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like you're you're a neurosurgeon You should have an ego like yeah I'm honored to be in your presence.
Yeah. Thank you for saving my sister's life, you know But so this surgeon he had an elbow wrap on with like copper pellet looking things on and I was like sure elbow hurt He was like, yeah, I have tendonitis murmur and I was like A brain surgeon has elbow pain. I was like,
Anna Hartman: and he's probably like, nobody can help me.
I
Missy Bunch: want it to be like, I have an opening next week. I mean, I'll work on your other knee or your neck. Yeah. Anyways. Um, okay. Let's, let's, let's get back to contributing to your community. So you go, no, you, you go, you're good. Yeah. Brainstem, cranial
Anna Hartman: nerves. Cranial nerves. Yep.
Missy Bunch: So, how, let's, what should we do? So, want to like do some stuff?
Anna Hartman: Sure. Sure. I'm having some pain. Making up some pain. Um. I don't need to make it up. There's plenty. No, no. There's plenty to pick from. Do
Missy Bunch: you want to like do that? You want to like play around with it?
Anna Hartman: Uh, camera angle's probably not good, but we can play around with just in general.
Okay.
Missy Bunch: Let's just, let's do it like this. So Anna brought up the cranial nerves and how we can utilize them for our clients, right, or your athletes. So let's just. Pick something random something that looks good on this camera. We could do like cervical lateral flexion, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah That's your arms.
Oh, yeah So if you take take a little do like a little body scan and see just how it feels maybe rotation
Anna Hartman: You see what doesn't look good on me.
Yeah, maybe
Missy Bunch: I'll just do range this this looks more restricted to me than this
Anna Hartman: Yeah, right side bending is like and super painful
Missy Bunch: Oh, okay. To your right. To my right, yeah. Where is eh and super painful?
Anna Hartman: Well, it just stops. And then it's actually, I get painful into my, um, like SC joint,
Missy Bunch: which is... Okay, so it's to her right, pain on her right, SC, and feels eh.
Yeah. So, what number do you want to give the eh? I get
Anna Hartman: pain in my neck too, but... And pain in the neck. The eh, what number out of 10 being the worst? Yeah, we'll just give ten. I mean, maybe four.
Missy Bunch: A four, okay. And then on the, is this a four? And, and what's
Anna Hartman: this? Yeah, they're, uh, pretty similar. Similar? Okay. Yeah, it's like jaw, it's kind of like this whole kind of area.
Missy Bunch: Okay, so, if you don't know this, Anna's a frequent flyer. Um, she's got a lot of stuff that probably happens on all the flights, right? Oh, I
Anna Hartman: was like, a frequent flyer abusing you for help? Oh! Frequent flyer. Frequent flyer. Literally on airplanes.
Missy Bunch: So this could do stuff to her brainstem like all the time. Um, but her brain is used to it, which is great.
So let's just try something simple. And so, like I said earlier, if you were like, I don't know what this crazy chick Missy's talking about. What we said was. There's an area of the brain that is responsible for pain inhibition. We know it's in the brainstem. So all you have to do is think to yourself what's in the brainstem and you think cranial nerves.
So if you were just Throwing spaghetti at a wall. You just pick a cranial nerve and see what happens. That would be the most fun way to do this. We could do it a very like hur hur way, but let's just have fun and do something easy. So I would pick anything that's not one and two just for starters. Just, I don't know why, I just feel like we should do three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve.
So why don't we do a pencil push up for cranial nerve three? Yay! Like I've got a
Anna Hartman: de huff one
Missy Bunch: too. Yay, that nerve is it innervates the medial rectus of each eye So it's supposed to be able to contract the medial recti to midline Yes, and so let's just see what happens when she does both eyes and she's bringing the Pencil to the bridge of her nose not the tip because those are different nerves and her if you guys can see this It's the left eye, not wanting to, I think.
Anna Hartman: The eye on the side of the hand is holding the... Yeah.
Missy Bunch: I don't think, I think they both aren't really... Yeah, pretty far. Yeah, lefty doesn't like this, but righty is struggling a bit as well actually.
And it could be my orientation. So I always like to make sure you know your orientation can affect your... What you see. Okay, let's take a break and just take a breather. We did both of them. She's just gonna check it out, and then we'll reassess her cervical lateral flexion and just see what happens and get some data.
It's either better same or worse. It's way better. Okay, great. Okay. So just describe it and then we'll want to ten it.
Anna Hartman: I don't feel the uh anymore or the sharp pain into the SC joint. Now I just feel it's just stops
and I feel a little pull in the back
Missy Bunch: now. In the back. Okay. So great. We like jumping pain. So we did five, six repetitions of an eye exercise and Upper trap neck SC and pain four out of 10 has altered and that's the magic of it. Yes. I love that. It's better, but the fact that we can alter it at all. Yes.
With an eye exercise, that's the beauty and that's the takeaway. I just realized I should probably have been closer to this mic this whole time. Um, but is that, does that sound better?
Anna Hartman: Yes. Louder.
Missy Bunch: Wow. I'm so sorry. It's okay. Um, it's cause I was like moving and stuff. It
Anna Hartman: wasn't bad to begin with, but now it's very loud.
Now it's
Missy Bunch: okay. Um, so that's what we want you to take away from this podcast today is how simple that was. Yeah. Going, going from an intelligent, effective standpoint, going hmm, cranial nerve 3 is in the brainstem, in the brainstem lives something that helps inhibit pain, let's just try it and it should help globally.
We only assess for cervical lateral flexion just Because that's what we assessed. But her ankle should feel better and her low back surgery from 20 years ago as well. Is it 20 years
Anna Hartman: old? Mmm, 13.
Missy Bunch: 13. I made it up. 13 years ago. So, that, that's what I also like to do. I like global betters the best. Right?
Sometimes you'll go, my upper ser my, my lateral flexion feels better, but now my ankle's worse. And I'll go, okay, well, let's kind of put that on the side, and let's see if we can find something that just gets you a better Better response. But we do like it. That's great. But if something else gets worse, it's not the best thing you could be doing.
Yeah. So that's just one example. Instead of me going, okay, upper thoracic glides would probably work. Shoulder mobility probably would have worked. Some soft tissue, or theragunning, or hot ice cold, like a lot of things will, would have worked. Right. But how nice is it to do 12 seconds of an eye exercise and get the same
Anna Hartman: result?
Yeah. Well, and then I think too, why a lot of people end up working with you, and sort of, like when I pull you in, tried the, I've tried the shoulder things, I've tried the thoracic veins, it doesn't shift it very well. So then I am left with like, well, what the hell? And yeah,
Missy Bunch: and honestly, It's kind of a funny thing to say because it's like you don't need to know much Move the eyeballs around and see what happens.
Yeah, you know without knowing and the science of everything just alright This athlete this athlete's on a plane a lot. She's probably working really hard. What if I said, hmm, you know, let's try Sitting up in a lengthened position Keep your head and chin where it is and just shoot your eyes up at a diagonal 45 degrees, not like straight up to the ceiling, but like a nice 45 diagonal and let's just hold for 3 to 5.
I would actually back off that range a little bit. It's like too high. Like, yeah, right there. And let's just take 2 breaths. Just kind of knowing she probably doesn't shoot her eyes up often. And then let's see what that
Anna Hartman: does. Why would I hold my phone up here? Why wouldn't
Missy Bunch: you? Okay, so go ahead and just shake it off, and then let's see if we like this result better, or is it worse?
Who knows?
Anna Hartman: Or it could
Missy Bunch: be
Anna Hartman: the same. Um, it's... It's different. It feels like more range of motion, but it hurts more in, in my
Missy Bunch: facial area. Okay. I was going to say it looks higher. That's what I saw. It looked, I thought you were going to say here, but then you said like right here. So, so this is like,
Anna Hartman: yeah, top of cervical spine.
Yeah.
Missy Bunch: Okay. So what's. This is what I love is no matter what results you get, it's the, it's the point. It's the fact that we can alter your experience of pain like this. Yeah. That's, that's the cool part. That way the professional using the information does their thing. Yes. Right. Like it was here and now it's here and then it's there.
And we tried this. So you can alter the experience of pain knowing simple, simple key strategies. with a brain based approach.
Anna Hartman: Well, I think that's interesting in itself, too, because, um, one of the things that happens with some people when they have pain in certain spots, they start ruminating, especially based on other experiences, that it might be something really bad, right?
Like, I get pain in my, like, breast area a lot, and I have, like, a little lump, and so that, like, instantly, because I've lost... a parent and a grandparent to cancer, instantly I'm like, Oh my God, I have breast cancer. But the fact that like, eye exercises either takes it away or completely changes it and puts the pain somewhere else, I'm like, Mmm, probably not breast cancer.
Yes. Right.
Missy Bunch: Yes. If, if you could jump it, move it, alter it.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, probably not actually the problem in the spot where it is. Right. So, that is sometimes like, nice too. Yeah.
Missy Bunch: Mm hmm. Little, little peace of mind.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. Not that you can't have like, pathology in an area that you can take pain away from, but it's just like, makes you feel like it's, uh, you've got control over it a little bit, which feels like, takes the scariness away, and then it's like, oh, I don't think this is that big
Missy Bunch: of a deal.
Yeah, control and honestly hope, right? Like there's hope.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And that was a big thing with the football player, is like, man, we were deep in the trenches with him and his emotions around this. His mental state. Yeah. And like, being able to take away his pain by doing all the Sarah Beller drills. Was gave him hope that he wasn't gonna have the knee pain forever.
Missy Bunch: Yeah, I mean, that's
Anna Hartman: and it was huge. That's Huge. It's awesome. Yeah, so yeah, anyways kind of a tangent, but it's a
Missy Bunch: tangent
Anna Hartman: but perfect but perfect Is there anything else that you want to add to that bit? I mean, that's like that's the crazy part is like yeah people that is as simple as it gets like
Missy Bunch: It's annoying.
I mean, like, it's annoying for people. It is annoying. To go, why does that work? It's, it's frustrating for practitioners. So just know that.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And I think, too, the other thing is, like, obviously you pulled it out in terms of, like, basing it on what I do and then also just, like, let's try one and see, but, but also, like, in your mentorship you teach, like, well, you can just assess them and then you can You'll, you'll have a, if you assess all of them, you'll have a list of the things that you need to work on or that give you the best results.
And so then you create somebody's program off of that. It's not like you're just like, move your eyes around.
Missy Bunch: Oh yeah. Correct. Exactly. No, it's very, yeah, it's,
Anna Hartman: it can be that simple, but also it can get really specific.
Missy Bunch: Yes. Yes. And that's, I guess, yeah, I was trying to provide hope that I don't want it to be daunting for anyone new to this language.
Right. And. In my mentorship, I cover it full spectrum from A to Z in the way that I have learned works. And that starts with a thorough history. Yeah. And then you figure out which cranial nerves, there's 12 on each side, you've got 24 tests to do. Not in one sitting. Yes. And then you have this magic list that's for that person's brain that helps that person.
Right. No matter what you thought was going to work or not work. Yeah. There's been so many times where I'm like, Wow, I thought that was going to be horrible. And that's your best... Reassessment.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. And that's like, what's interesting too, when you take someone's history, I mean, you know, you'll hear this from people all the time.
They'd be like, Oh yeah, all my problems are on my left side. And that's like magic information to you. Cause then, you know, like a specific side of their brainstem. And so then it's like.
Missy Bunch: So in that case, you have a really good chance that left cranial nerves are going to help that person like that. Now, if it doesn't, you got a 50% chance and you just hop over to the other side and that's going to work.
Something's going to work.
Anna Hartman: But then, too, that's when you learn, too, the other areas of the brain that you can influence on the opposite side that could, so, that's the cool thing, too, about Missy's mentorship and what she's teaching, she's making understanding the circuitry of the brain really easy, right, because maybe once upon a time in school you did learn that, like, the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, but then that's not always true for all the things, and so it's like, okay, so, how do you split it up, how do you understand what controls Sensory, what controls motor, what controls postural control, Sympathetics, like it all, it is not as straightforward as left and right.
It
Missy Bunch: is. Right, like it is and it
Anna Hartman: isn't. Right. They don't all
Missy Bunch: follow that. Right, exactly. You want them to because that would be easier for
Anna Hartman: you. That would be so easy. Everything right side Exactly. How easy. We want
Missy Bunch: the textbook answers but that's not how people are and you know, knowing these key cerebellum assessments.
are simple, but then knowing how to use them, you know, when you had, um, one of your athletes that's been with you a long time. And we talked about the reflexive 90%, 10% cortisol with the movement. And you were like, I did this left knee thing for his right stability. It, you, you were texting me. I don't know if you remember that.
I won't say his name anyways,
Anna Hartman: or Yeah. Oh, different. Yes. I, I do remember. Different
Missy Bunch: football player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But, um, Anyways, the whole cerebellum talk with that too. So yeah, this stuff's really simple. It's real juicy. Can be intimidating, but not with me. Yeah. My whole goal is... For it to not be intimidating.
Anna Hartman: Yes. It is not. You do a great job of that. She's a great teacher. Um, yeah. With that said, I mean, we can wrap it up. But I want you, yes, to talk about your mentorship. Uh, it's starting soon. The doors are open now. Um, the day we're filming the podcast, you'll miss the early birds. Sorry, but, uh, yeah. But come anyways.
Come anyways. Go ahead and tell us all the dates and all the
Missy Bunch: things. Oh yeah. Perfect. So I was gonna say, thanks for being here. Yeah. So basically, um, it's 14 weeks. We start August 18th. I would love to have you, this is going to be the best version cause it's the latest. I have all the upgrades and updates and my husband does the workbook and makes everything beautiful and very easy to sort through he's really.
Big on things being easy to find and referencing. So if I put a video out and I just throw out a two hour recording, he gets very upset. He wants it time stamped, chapters written out, so you know where to go and what to skip, so it's I need a Ryan
Anna Hartman: in my life, so bad. Ryan, I In so many ways. I love Ryan, but
Missy Bunch: he's the best.
Yeah. You can borrow him.
Anna Hartman: I'm sure he's got plenty of time between all your stuff and being a dad. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So much
Missy Bunch: time. But, um, so yeah, I've basically created this mentorship for someone who I created it in a way that I wish I was taught. Yes. That's what I'm trying to say, because when you go into these neural courses, it's a little bit overwhelming.
There's a lot of pathways. And I wish someone just spoke to me in normal human English, because that's how our clients speak. Yes. And that's, that's my biggest thing is I want it to be Down to earth a good time, but get you and your clients results that are shocking and possibly challenging things you believed in the past like Anna and I and Yeah, it's every Friday at 12 Doors close August 16th at midnight So that's
Anna Hartman: a week from so this podcast will probably air on August 9th, Wednesday, August 9th and so a week from The airing of this podcast.
Yep. Yeah. A week from today when the doors close and then it starts a week from Friday. Um,
Missy Bunch: yep. Um, doors closed the 16th. We start on the 18th. The other really cool things. Two tracks. Yep that so I've never done this but I have I wanted it to be accessible to more people So one track I want to say tracked because that's the spinal cord track the PCT My goodness.
I now track to me is tracked. So the tracks I have the first one is the fundamental track which Right. You can choose that. It'll have, you'll have every call, the workbook. It'll be amazing. The community. And then the other one is the VIP experience with my guest speakers. I I've never had guest speakers, so I'm so excited about this.
Anna is obviously one of them. She's the first person I thought of. And then we have, I've only promised nine guest speakers, but I have, I mean, I promised six and I have nine. I love it. Like, I don't even know where I'm going to put these people in my calendar, but. Uh, it's happening. So that alone, I tried to tally up what it would cost to hire all of these people.
And it's like over 5, 000 just to hear them talk. Yes. plus my mentorship. So it's very, very, very worth it. I hope you join that version of it because it's just got all things and you get lifetime access to all of those things. Yes. So that's my offer. I personally invite you to come. I'm super excited about it and it's It's going to be really good.
Anna Hartman: Yes. Do it. Do it. Um, I'm so excited for you and like, for reals, like super jealous of like the quality of the learning experience in terms of like all the stuff that Ryan does for it is like, it's like y'all, like people who have experienced my education. It's still good education, but it doesn't look so professional because I just, um, like, get it done, throw it up there, and, which everybody's happy with.
I'm not mad about that. Yeah. But then, like, Missy and Ryan, they do it right. It looks like it's professional. They're very professional. And, but at the same time, even though it's so professional, they are so down to earth, and they make it so easy, and Missy's a great teacher, and I think you'll just be impressed all the way around.
So.
Missy Bunch: Thank you. Just, just know that it didn't get there overnight. Right? Like my first program you were in. I don't even think I had, no, I had a workbook, but it was like blank pages. It was like, here's some blank paper. Take notes while we hang out. Yeah, it's great. So it has evolved, right? So yeah, thank you.
I really appreciate that. It is a lot of work. It is
Anna Hartman: a lot of work. Stay
Missy Bunch: up. Stay up and work on it. Thank you guys so much for your
Anna Hartman: time. Thank you for being here. Thank you everyone. We'll see you on the next episode. Yeah. And, uh, hopefully you check out Missy's info. Of course, I'll put everything in the show notes that we chit chatted about.
And... Thanks. See ya. Bye. Bye.
