Healing and Wellness: Remade
"Your body is your best friend." parting words from my friend and colleague Daniela Spear. Many people have a hard time both feeling and understanding this, especially those people who have autoimmune diseases. Often in the Western medicine community when someone is diagnosed with an autoimmune disease they are given the explanation that their body is "attacking" itself. It is easy to then understand why it does not resonate with best friend vibes.
Daniela was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease when she was 15 years old and through learning about health and wellness and performance from her previous job as a strength (performance) coach at EXOS and through the MovementREV education realized that she wasn't under-recovered and under-rested, which is different than the traditional concepts of over trained and overstressed.
While practicing various methods of movement that supported rest and diving into how emotions played a role in her diagnosis and capacity to heal she learned how her symptoms were not something wrong with her, but ways her body was working for her, and responding to the information it was being provided.
Join me as Daniela shares her journey of healing from autoimmune disease and getting a second chance at a life not only free from medication but truly feeling in EASE with life after dis-ease.
We talk about the power of words, belief systems, the role her liver and liver-focused movement played in her healing, and how she can now offer support to others ready to be remade too.
Resources from Anna:
DaVinci Rolling (learned from Phillip Beach)-https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsZEsELLgb8/
All the resources from Daniela:
FREE Download: Unlocking Your Body's Secrets: A Guide to Understanding Your Emotions and Healing Chronic Symptoms
The Weekly Remade Journal (email list)
Instagram: @daniela.spear
Youtube: @danielaspear
Podcast: The Remade Life Podcast
Website: remadewellness.com
Considering the viscera as a source of musculoskeletal pain and dysfunction is a great way to ensure a more true whole body approach to care, however it can be a bit overwhelming on where to start, which is exactly why I created the Visceral Referral Cheat Sheet. This FREE download will help you to learn the most common visceral referral patterns affecting the musculoskeletal system. Download it at www.unrealresultspod.com
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Anna Hartman: Hey there and welcome. I'm Anna Hartman and this is Unreal Results, a podcast where I help you get better outcomes and gain the confidence that you can help anyone, even the most complex cases. Join me as I teach about the influence of the visceral organs and the nervous system on movement, pain, and injuries, all while shifting the paradigm of what whole body assessment and treatment really looks like.
I'm glad you're here. Let's dive in.
Hello, hello, uh, welcome back to another episode of the unreal results podcast. I have a special guest, another guest podcast. Um, with me today, my friend Daniela from Remade Wellness, which is her business. Daniela and I have known each other for a while now. Uh, we met via Instagram. Um, she reached out to me.
She Uh, had worked for Exos, uh, and so we had that familiarity and, um, she was just so sweet in my DMs. We started chatting and I started giving her answers to her questions and then she took my courses and, um, I got to know her more and learn about her journey and I just am like. So fascinated by it, and I just feel, I felt like my world including, but also the world, needs to learn more about her and her journey and what she's putting out into the world.
And so I, uh, I wanted to bring her on and she's also a good, um, person for us to talk to because she's been through, I think almost all of my education except for the in person course, right? Which one of these days you'll get there. So um, yeah, so I'll let her do a formal introduction, but, uh, Daniela, welcome.
Daniela Spear: Thank you. Thank you for having me on your podcast, Anna. You're welcome.
Anna Hartman: So, um, give us, uh, give us your, uh, elevator pitch of who's Daniella.
Daniela Spear: I love and hate this question because I never know, like, where do I start, where do I stop? It is tough. It is tough. Um. All right, so I'm Daniela. I am a restorative movement practitioner, and I have a background in strength and conditioning.
As you mentioned, I previously worked for Exos and the corporate fitness sector of Exos, and then I launched into working for myself full time. I launched Remade Wellness. Full time and within that work. I help individuals that experience autoimmune disease incorporate movement and strength training into their life into their health care plan and practice to mostly to reconnect with their body I guide people in that journey of Going from experiencing disease to experiencing wellness and kind of what is helping them establish for themselves what that journey looks like.
And for me, it's all about creating this second chance at wellness. That's what Remade Wellness is founded upon is the second chance to have a much more compassionate relationship with your body. And I am so passionate about that work because I've had my own experience with autoimmune disease when I was about 15 or 16 years old.
Was diagnosed with not immune disease as diagnosed with lupus and through the last 15 years, they have discovered a lot of different modalities that have helped me to heal primarily exercise and movement. And then, I think, in more recent years, the most notable changes have come from incorporating.
Restorative and recovery practices into my life, and I am so confident saying that that has been the thing that has helped me to get to where I am now. And that is. Being medication free and I just started my medication free journey actually this year. So I, I think I'm about like five months now and I am just rocking and thriving right now.
Anna Hartman: I love that. I, I think that is like the coolest thing. Uh, I mean, and there's so much to unpack with that. Um, one like. You know, like, well, first of all, when you're just explaining sort of what you did, what you help people do, you're reminding me of that quote that I love by I think it's an A. T. Steele quote, um, that, you know, anyone can find the disease.
The job of the practitioner is to find the health. Yeah. And I think that is just like such a powerful way to go about thinking about. Things and working with people is, you know, especially in the, in the world of physical therapy and athletic training, we're like, when we evaluate someone, we even medical doctors to like, when they evaluate someone, they're so quick to point out what's wrong with people and.
They forget like all the rest of the things that are so amazing to it. Like my, my sister's a good example of that, you know, she's had like a brain tumor and she has Crohn's disease and she has asthma and like she has all these diagnoses and so she thinks that she has terrible luck and she has terrible health and all these things.
But I'm also like. But also, on the flip side of that, you've survived a 22 hour brain surgery, you don't have a brain tumor anymore, you, you have seizures but you're very functional on medicine and like, deal with it. I was like, you have Crohn's disease and you've never been on medication for it and you, you've had it for like, half your life and like, The, the flare ups suck, like you navigate it well, and like you've had two kids, both of which were complicated pregnancies.
I was like, to me, I see the opposite of like, you are amazing, like you have the best luck, you've survived all these things, and your, your body is doing exactly what it's designed to do, is like, keep on going and survive, and I just feel like it's so important to like reframe things. The, my aunt texted me and my sister this other day, like she has this like blood disease slash like blood cancer sort of type thing.
Um, and she's, you know, she's 75, so she's at the, you know, towards the end of her life and she, um, well, I hope not. She thinks she's at towards the end of her life, but, um, and she was like, well, the doctor said I have a 2% Or a six year survival and within a 2 percent chance of getting cancer in the next four years and like something else and I was like, wait, so if she was like, my sister's like, Oh my God, like, is she gonna die in six years?
And I was like, Whoa, no, I read this as like, you have a 98 percent chance. In the next five years of not developing into a cancer, I was like, like, I'm like, did we forget about the other math on the other side of this? And so, um, I just love that whenever we can kind of, yeah, look for the health and reframe.
And this actually goes into a conversation we were having before I hit record. And when I'm very powerful, a very, I feel very strongly about is like words matter. And, um, Words matter a lot with how you're talking to yourself, how you're talking to others, how you're talking to people about their bodies, about their illnesses or their health.
And, um, we just, I don't think people realize sometimes how powerful words are and how we sort of like stick to labels. And, Believe those things from people like I'm not gonna believe that doctor that my aunt has a six year like like There's no way of knowing that like we can literally know I didn't know that.
Daniela Spear: Yeah This book I was reading between heaven and earth and they were talking about Like, the point at which, like, health care became kind of what it is today, like, Western health care. Yeah. And at what point in time we kind of lost this faith in ourselves and started entrusting that to an outside source.
Yeah. And I mean, don't get me wrong. I say this all the time. Western medicine is absolutely needed, has performed a lot of miracles, and I mean, your sister being a very great example, but like, at the same time, we have lost trust in our bodies and that like, connection with ourselves that. Anytime we experience anything where we immediately go, like, someone tell me what's wrong, like, yeah, and I think what's been a huge shift for me is, like, recognizing that even those symptoms that come up and, like, feel like something is wrong.
Are actually what's right. It's our body responding and communicating with us. And, uh, when I started to see symptoms as patterns of protection, like that was just a game changer, um, as far as like the relationship that I held with my body and a huge factor in helping me to be where I'm at today.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, that's so, that's so awesome.
I mean, that is like, I mean, it goes down to like, I always think about how emotions and how. What we feel in our how we feel in our body and then also how emotions like stick with it is like, I think in general, most people don't like feeling their emotions like most of us are, um, I think it goes to like, how we're raised as kids to like, past a certain age, like, if you are crying all the time, like you're shamed, like, yeah, stop crying, stop crying, like a baby stop, stop, you know, um, Being childish.
Right. Stop being childish. We, we start to, we tell people to stop having emotions, like to stop emotionally responding. Or people get angry. Stop being angry. Like, stop, like, we try to stop emotions from happening. And so we just start stuffing them. And by stuffing our emotions and not actually dealing with them, we start ignoring how we're feeling.
And that carries over to symptoms in the body. We're just so used. To ignoring them and ignoring what we're feeling because we don't allow us. Ourselves, the space to process any of it that, um, and dissociation, exactly. It's like, we're like floating heads. Like, we just don't want to know what's going on below.
Like all we care about is up here. And so, you know, and it masks, it's actually very. So funny where these conversations go. It's very like, you know, from a yin and yang standpoint or like masculine, feminine, feminine standpoint, it's like such a masculine way of being, which is such. Like, championed in our patriarchal society.
Absolutely. And the feminine is like, you know, all about feeling and like, so, so it's like, no wonder we've been like, suppressed in that, right? Because that is not a, a quality that is championed in our society. And so, but it is like, the missing piece of us healing and the missing piece of us thriving in life is actually, um, Being able to start, you know, like you said, like reconnecting with your body, reconnecting with your feelings and, and, and recognizing feelings and symptoms as your body speaking to you and learning how to trust that and follow it.
Daniela Spear: Yeah, I mean, that's been such a huge part of my journey. I had a pretty transformative experience, um, about maybe like 18 months ago now. Um, Where I felt like I could finally release this identity as a sick person and, you know, since then, like, I'm very mindful of the words that I use around talking about experiencing autoimmune disease or even having a lupus diagnosis.
I no longer take that on as like, I have lupus, or I'm a lupus warrior, or a lupus thriver. I'm very mindful, uh, to not speak those things over myself. And I think once I, like, peeled back this, like, initial layer of an identity as a sick person, then, like, all of these repressed emotions, like, suddenly came to the surface.
And I laugh because I sometimes, like, share this story, and it's like, when I released Who I, who I call sick Daniela, right? It's like my identity is a sick person. I like felt like I immediately saw angry Daniela, just like sitting in the corner being like, Oh good. Is it my turn? It was just like all these emotions of anger that I had, I learned.
And I just out of necessity to repress as, as a child, as a teenager, we're suddenly like coming to the surface. And now I, as an adult, like had the space and had the. Skill set to, to deal with them and to address those emotions. And I mean, don't get me wrong. It was not pretty for a long time. And I think like, uh, for the majority of this year, it, the kind of theme of my life has been reconciling with my anger and learning and understanding that, like, anger in itself is not.
A bad emotion. It's a very protective emotion. And if we can learn to interact with that emotion in a much healthier way, then those emotions don't get stored in our body. Because the root of systemic inflammation, autoimmune disease, It is repressed anger and that's like what people don't like to talk about what people don't like to address and That anger is what starts to create that inflammation in the body.
That's so interesting It is it's so wild when you start to think about it and I know it's uncomfortable to like start look like looking at those pieces because like no one wants to feel like autoimmune disease or any diagnosis is their fault. And it's never about like taking blame, but it's about acknowledging, you know, your body's experience, your body's experience through your entire life.
And, um, I know, Anna, you talked a lot about like the, um, You don't call it the threat bucket, but the right, but I mean the threat bucket.
Anna Hartman: I'll call it the compensation. But yeah, it's yeah, the cup of compensation.
Daniela Spear: There you go. It's all the same theory that the threat bucket that you everything you experience into your like through your entire life goes into this bucket and all of those things.
Add up and when it overflows, that's when you experience those symptoms, that's when you experience autoimmune disease. But like, when you go to the doctor in, like, you know, our Western modern approach, you're looking at all the, like, physical things you're looking at the. responses as the cause, right? Like you're looking at, oh, this auto, like you have autoimmune disease and that's what's causing your pain and inflammation and your fatigue when really the autoimmune disease is like the effect of all of these other things that we don't typically look at from like a modern Western approach.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, so interesting. So, If you don't mind me asking, when you recognized that you had, like, all this anger, and, like, you, the, that was, like, your big emotion that you were, that was, like, affecting your body so much, um, what are the things that you did to help it? Like, did you, like, you know, I always think of The people in my life that have anger issues, sometimes I'm like, I feel like you just need to go to one of those rooms where you smash a bunch of shit up.
And like, let it out. Physically, yeah, like, physically just let out, like, you know, like, bash in a friggin office printer, like, on the, you know, office. So, I'm curious. I'm curious, I'm curious, um, of what you did.
Daniela Spear: Yeah, well, this is still like a fairly new journey for me and I think even now I'm just now Like getting comfortable with like expressing it in a healthier way.
Yeah, I think when I like it when it initially came up for me my immediate response if I can just be like very honest was to like Put that on to my family and, uh, I don't recommend, um, you know, go to therapy, um, I've been in therapy and, but it was, my solution was like, okay, we need to have these conversations with people that were a part of those experiences and.
What I was not prepared for was that while I was ready to have those conversations, no one else was, and it kind of like really backfired, you know, created a lot of tension, a lot of uncomfortable conversations and all, and it just kind of, um, created even more frustration, more anger of, of not being listened to.
And the thing that I have. What I've really learned in this process is learning to validate myself and then understanding what defending myself looks like in situations where I feel That I need defending and can I defend myself and can that be enough and asking myself the hard questions of why do I feel like I need someone else to defend me or to validate me?
Why is my own validation not enough? Right? Right. And it's like going through those questions, spend a lot of time in therapy and journaling and then also using movement to release a lot of that. So there's been a lot of hitting the pillows, hitting the bolsters, screaming into the pillows. Those are good.
But then also on the flip side of that, so we think of like anger and rage is like very aggressive and Powerful movements, but on the flip side of that I've also taken a much more gentler approach with caring for my body the liver Interestingly is like the seat of anger as where anger lives and can you know create?
And interestingly enough, like as part of my autoimmune experience, I dealt with elevated liver enzymes for a long time. And to this day, I will live by the truth that the da Vinci stretch that you taught me, it cured and healed my liver. But also spending a lot of time with, like, the gorgeous ball or, like, uh, a blanket and rolling through my abdomen and just acknowledging it, right?
Just acknowledging that the anger is present and, like, learning to be comfortable with it too. Um, and then most recently, I've, I've kind of taken on this journey of trying to understand why it's hard for me to just simply, like, release it, like, this idea of let it go. Right, but you know, I think that in itself is also like a way of shaming and learning to understand like what does letting it go look like from not a hurry up and get rid of this, but letting it go from releasing it to be free.
Yeah, and I was. I was spending some time in like meditation through this and I had this like vision of this tree that came to me and my like task was to like pull up this tree but I couldn't obviously because like it was very rooted and then I was like told to like chop it at the roots and it like didn't make sense to me like why would I kill this tree and then I realized that like this tree was actually me which was angry Daniela.
You know, if you just like vision me with some like flames, that's angry Daniela. Like inside, like inside out. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, chopping at the roots was not necessarily intended to like kill, kill angry Daniela or like kill this tree or like get rid of it, but to, to free her, to, to come and go freely.
And I don't know if like those visionary exercises work for everyone, but they've been really helpful for me. And I think the bigger theme here is just learning to spend time with my emotions and, uh, would be willing to have conversations with my emotions with sick Daniela and angry Daniela. And there is a fun Daniela.
I promised as much as all of these different versions of myself of learning to be with myself and learning to have those conversations and create safety. In that sense. Yeah. For sure. That's so, I mean, there's, that's just like so much gold in there. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It is, um, it is cool. I mean, and it is so important for people to figure out, I think the underlying thing of any feeling is like really like spending the time, like sitting with yourself and giving yourself the space to like, be like, why am I, why do I feel it like this?
Why do I feel like this? Why am I angry? And, um, I think, cause you're right, people are like, let it go, and let it go, instead of letting it be free, like you said, is like, often, let it go, sometimes can feel like, Shaming and just ignore what you feel, which is just more stuffing of it and like not processing it.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, exactly. So, um, and I do, you know, I'm a big like proponent of like the physical movement being part of it because, you know, you know, when you look at the nervous system type of thing, like when you're When you're angry, when you're defending yourself, like you, like you, like you explained it, like, when you're in defense, right, that is your nervous system being in that fight or flight mode, and so, fighting and flighting, both, both basically are mobilization of the organism, and that is the whole purpose of the sympathetic nervous system, is to mobilize the organ, or organism, and, like, to mobilize, and so, um, oftentimes, That's what we need.
So I, I realized this a while back in my sort of journey of like trying to heal my nervous system, which is like an ongoing thing, right? This is not like we don't arrive at a healed spot. Like, wouldn't that be nice? Life continues to happen, right? But I realized like my tendency was to gravitate towards like more.
I would say like, I don't want to say they're not movement, but like softer things like yoga and Pilates and breathing exercises and grounding and which all stuff is great and wonderful and has its place even within my body, but it wasn't really shifting my nervous system like it. Well, like I wanted it to and perhaps probably because I was so in that stuck in that nervous system that I was even towards the freeze mode.
So it was just like, it was just like staying in my freeze mode a little bit, um, with this excuse of like, well, these things are supposed to be good for your nervous system. So. You know, like, it's easy, and it's an easy way out. And what I realized, though, is what I needed was mobilization. Like, I needed to work out, and to work out a little harder at times, and in order to give my nervous system that mobilization and sort of, like, work my way back through.
You know, what I learned is the polyvagal ladder, but basically like work my way back through to the actual mobilization piece. And when I started, you know, doing things like that, that are a little bit more aggressive of type of mobilizations, you know, like strength training and like a little bit more high intensity cardio, let's say I, I was starting to feel much better.
And so a little bit of that too, is sort of like paying attention of what, like how you feel with it. Like, it wasn't until I tried it that I was like, actually, I actually feel more rested when I, when I do this stuff, like, as opposed to the yoga, like, yoga feels good, but it doesn't, like, shift anything.
Yeah, yeah, and that is really important to just pay attention to what you need, because sometimes it is, like, The intense exercises that can help you feel more grounded, more secure. But then other times it's the gentle, the slow moving. Yeah. It's really what you need. Yeah. You know, what was interesting too, recently we were, we went to Disneyland over the summer.
Um, my sister and my nieces and I, and, um, and my brother in law was there too. And, and, uh, we went on. One of my favorite rides is the Guardians of the Galaxy ride, which, have you been to Disneyland? Do you know what that ride is? Not in a long time. I don't think the Oh, it was probably not there then. So, Guardians of the Galaxy is, um, well, at Disney World, it would be the equivalent to the, um, Tower of Terror, or the Hollywood Okay, yeah.
Yeah, I've been to Disney World. I think Disneyland when I was a baby, so it hasn't been a long time. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so So, Guardians of the Galaxy is at California Adventure in Disneyland in California. Um, and it's in the same building as the Tower of Terror used to be. Tower of Terror is not there anymore, but it's still at Disney World.
But it's kind of the same concept of you, like, go up in, like, an elevator shaft in the top of the, you know, and it, like, literally just drops you, right? So, it's like It's scary. It's so scary and, um, during it, you know, and then also it like, not only like drops you, but it also like shoots you up really fast and, you know, it's like just very, it's very like jolting and, um, It was so it's very there's a lot of fear in it too.
So, so I'm thinking of the liver. So, you know, you talked about how anger is in the seat of the liver, but fear is too, which obviously fear and anger are very connected. Like you said, this anger is like, actually, you defending yourself and defending yourself if you're fear in fear and, um. I realized, because I am, I'm kind of more the fear side of the liver thing, like, I am, I'm very, like, liver dominant of, uh, um, patterns in my body, and, uh, I'm not, I don't have a lot of anger, like, I'm, like, Again, to bring my sister into this, my sister, she is like, lives in anger, no surprise knowing that she has an autoimmune disease as well.
But she's like, full of anger. And I am like, the opposite. And we've been like that our whole life. Like I'm the really calm person, and she's the less calm and more expressive and Yeah, we're all angry very differently. Yes, and, but, um, I, like, uh, fear is something, I mean, fear is something we all discover.
My fears are, are, you know, a lot of times, like, have to do with, like, being alone. Anyways, uh, when I was on that ride, I screamed. I've been on that ride a ton. I love that ride, but this time, especially, the scream I let out was like this very deep, like, primal scream that I can't remember the last time I screamed that loud.
And when I screamed that loud, I also then started laughing hysterically, right? Which is sometimes like a pain and fear response too, is laughing. But I felt absolutely amazing after that ride, and it was a realization of like, wow, I didn't know that I needed that like mobilization of my fear let out of my body.
I like had no idea that I needed it. And then after I experienced it, I was like, yeah, I kind of feel like I need to go to Disneyland on a monthly basis just to scream like that. Like, just to have something, like, I'm so used to, like, holding it all in, because I'm also, like, an emotional stuffer in general, and then I was like, that just, like, forced it to all came out, and holy crap, that felt good.
So. Yeah. Letting out a good scream every now and then. Oh my gosh. So helpful. So helpful. Holy cow. Anyways, kind of a side thing, but that's what it made me think of. So I love that you love the da Vinci exercise. I love that too. So I will definitely link that in the show notes for everyone. So, um, is there any, um, I mean, besides being able to feel better in your body, come off your medicine, which is like the hugest thing.
Is there anything from like a Musculoskeletal standpoint that, I know you talked about using the symptoms in your body as sort of a guide to how you're feeling. Is there anything, you know, just kind of bring it back from a, back into the physical movement or, um, pain genre? Is there anything that you can provide some insight in?
How you navigated that? Because I know me and you worked together for some, um, musculoskeletal problems. Um, and as a strength coach, like, how do you see this kind of, like, fitting into that world and fitting into.
Daniela Spear: yeah. I think strength training has been just Um, I was a big part of my life. Well, I was an athlete growing up.
Um, I did gymnastics, played soccer in high school, so I was always very active, but when I got to college, I didn't really like have that outlet anymore. And so I started going to the gym and I started realizing like, I really love how this makes me feel, but you have to keep in mind as a very, very young adult, a different point in my life, and I loved the empowerment that strength training gave me because for me, it was like a way to, to feel in control of a body that I felt I didn't have control over at the time.
Yeah. When I started working. For exos, I started learning about all these different recovery practices and kind of what did that look like incorporating recovery into strength training and creating a more well rounded training program and that started to Thank you. Shift a lot of things for me, and it was no longer about just punishing my body for having symptoms, but it was about honoring my body and creating a more resilient body in the process.
And for me, strength training has always been this, like, tiny dose of stress of here's some control, controlled stress and then recovery is teaching my body that there is safety. Even when there is stress present. Right? And so it's strength training has been, of course, on the musculoskeletal side, creating a more resilient body, right?
And then also helping to eliminate toxins and improving lymphatic flow and just functioning as a human. I had this theory, like, while I was, like, working at Exos, that, like, Okay, all of, you know, all these strength training approaches help athletes improve performance. Can I take this approach into the autoimmune space?
And if I can somehow increase my humanness through strength training, would, would the disease decrease, right? And so if instead of focusing on the disease itself and just managing the disease, can I focus on being a more functional human? Right, and that involved just general strength training for functioning on a daily basis, right?
Yeah. Um, because autoimmune disease can be very degenerative, depending on the diagnosis that you were given, right, or that you were told. Like, I mean, it can be just by nature, hyper inflammation in the body can be degenerative to connective tissue. So can I, Counter that with strength training and heavy training at that.
And for me, that was a way to not just train the musculoskeletal system, but to also train the immune system via the nervous system. And so kind of started. Piecing all that together. Like, okay, all of these systems are actually connected and the immune system, like contrary to what I was told that like, Oh, your immune system just attacking your body because it's confused, like, no, like it wasn't working alone, um, in fact, it was in connection with all these other systems.
But strength training, I think also helped me to realize. That there was dysregulation in other systems as well, and I was over training and under recovering. My nervous system was overstimulated and under rested. Right, and all of that was having an impact on my immune system. And as I mentioned earlier, that like, When you were diagnosed with an autoimmune disease, at least, you know, I think this was 2008 back when I was like, I was told that like, oh, it, it is your immune system.
That is gone wrong. Right? And it was told in my immune system was wrong. But in reality, like, when you start to see the connection between your immune system and all of the other systems. You start to see that, no, the immune system is not wrong, it's responding to the inputs that it has, right? And then actually, autoimmune disease, autoimmune symptoms, is actually a correct response to the amount of inputs that it's being given.
Yeah. And so strength training, when I learned to take a more progressive approach to strength training, uh, became a way to help me regulate not just musculoskeletal, but also nervous system, my breathing. And also my immune system.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, that's awesome. Um, how, when you decided with your doctor to come off the medicine, um, you know, and, um, you eventually did, You know, what is your, what is your doctor saying about this?
Like, you know, cause obviously you're like not a ton of people ever come off their medicine one because they don't think it's possible. Right. I'm hoping you're like the Roger Bannister of immune, you know, the immune autoimmune world in terms of like, once people see it's possible, people are going to like strive for it.
Right. Like once he, he ran the mile under four minutes, like. You know, nobody had done that. And then, like, 45 days later, another person did, right? So, I'm curious what your doctor's thoughts are, were, like, continue to be. Like, are they amazed, or they just think you're, like, an outlier, or Yes, to all of that.
Daniela Spear: Um, I've had experience with all of that. I remember when I was initially diagnosed with lupus and then I was also seeing a nephrologist at the time because I had kidney involvement. I remember my doctor just making comments like, Oh, you're such a good patient. Like you take your medicine every day and you are, you know, having great results.
Uh, through like the treatment that I was having at the time, because like you drink your water, like you're supposed to, you're active. And I was like, Doesn't everyone do this? And no, no, no, not at all. I was like, oh, okay. Um, but, you know, now as an adult that, you know, my room working with my rheumatologist and wanting to get off medication, like it had never come up because I had never brought it up.
And I think that, um, you know, My, my doctor's job is to, you know, make sure that everything was stable, that it's healthy, that I was able to, you know, function on a day to day basis. It wasn't until like the fall of 2022 that I had asked, like, Hey, can I actually reduce the dosage? Um, so I think I'm doing really well.
And he had said yes to that. And so we can. Tapered off, um, we just decreased it by maybe 100 milligrams at the time. I don't remember exactly what it was, but then I don't know what exactly like what switch like flipped. I think it was around the time last year when I was like, realizing like, okay, if, you know, all these repressed emotions were the cause or were a huge contributor to autoimmune disease, like I'm dealing with them now, like.
Is it possible to live free of autoimmune disease, and is it possible to live free of medication? And it was just kind of an idea that came to me, I think. And then earlier this year, I think it was like February, I went to see my liver specialist, and he said, you know, everything's looking good, like, You can just, like, keep your care at your rheumatologist, and for me, that was, like, such a huge win to, like, be dismissed from a doctor, to a doctor tell me, say, like, I don't need to see you anymore, like, this is great, and it was such a huge win, and, like, at that point, all I saw was just one less doctor's appointment each year, like, you know, one less medical bill, like, amazing, and then a couple months later, I had my, like, six month follow up with my rheumatologist and I said, you know, I'm doing really well.
Um, on like the tapered dosage, is it possible to get off of medication? And he said, yeah, go for it. Like, I was like, what? I'm sorry. No, hold on. Cause I had Prepared this whole speech around like why a reason able to get off medication. I was like, you're not gonna let me do the speech and like, . And I was just like, wait a minute, hold on.
Maybe not so fast. And um, he said, yeah, you know, like there's no, there's no side effects to getting off Plaquenil. Like just you can go for it. And I was like, I don't know about that lip. So I actually was the one that's like kind of pumped the brakes on that a little bit. And I said, why don't we taper?
And he said, sure. You know, you can like, we made it like a three month plan to taper and then to be completely off of medication by. It was like July of this year. So he was very supportive more so than I was of myself getting off medication. However, I know that that's not necessarily like the story that everyone experiences, but I think that, you know, he, he's known me and he's followed my journey for a long time and think he knows it, like.
I do the things that are required of being off of medication, like I live a generally very healthy lifestyle. I'm very active. I'm very mindful of how I nourish my body and pay attention to hydration. Sleep can always use a little more work, but we're getting there. Right? And so I think he just like, had that trust and need to be able to 1, like, be honest and like.
Hand, like, handle the process of getting off of medication and then handle the process of being off of medication and. Since then, like, that is just, being off medication is, was like, a huge life altering moment, right? And it was almost like, 15 years exactly to like, when I was initially diagnosed, so like, I remember like, getting out of that doctor's office, and I just like, called my mom, like, we both cried, because like, you know, you know, like, autoimmune disease isn't just like the individual.
It's like the family and everyone around that individual that also experiences all of it. And so it was just like a huge win for like me and our entire family. And it was a really cool experience to like, think like, okay, this is happening. Um, but then, you know, getting tapering and then getting off medication, being off of medication now has been a completely different.
And it's almost like I have had to learn and experience my body and everything else for the first time all over again. Right. Because it was like, okay, yeah, I did strength training. I worked out on medication. But what does working out feel like? What does strength training feel like? being off of medication.
Can I handle the same load? What is my recovery practice going to look like? Can it be the same? Does it need to be more? Is it less? So I had all these questions. Around what life is going to be like without medication and I think like around the same time. It's like when I started experiencing the gastric reflux, and I was like, why is my digestive system?
Like, all of a sudden, like, being so triggered, like, I'm eating generally the same, but I remember, right? Like, everything I was eating before was with medication. And now, yeah. It was without it. So I think my body was just, was going through a relearning process and. It was really important for me to really slow down and pay attention to like, okay, these are the things that I'm now experiencing and now being five months out, um, I'm a lot happier.
I feel a lot better. Right. Even when I was on medication, yeah, but it has been a different process to really learn my body being off of medication But it's nice because like while you're on medication you learned all those tools And so now that you know now that you're off, you know how to navigate a little better you have Like, solutions for how to support your rest and recovery, um, that you probably didn't have before.
And so, like, you're ready for whatever your body throws at you, in a sense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I have had that conversation with people asking me about getting off of medication and it, um, kind of the experience and the process of being off medication. And, you know, it's kind of like any life change that anyone wants to make is kind of like you, you want to wait until the change happens to then kind of live this different life, but that was exactly what I told people is that learn the tools first, like, learn the tools, implement the tools, practice and live by these tools before getting off medication, because those are the tools that are going to help you get to a place where you can get off of medication.
Anna Hartman: For sure. Right. That makes sense. Um, I think that's great. And what it reminded me of, too, and why your doctor probably, like you said, he'd known you, he knows that you were doing all these things, as this comes up a lot when I talk to my athletes, and actually when I've talked to some of the orthopedic surgeons I've worked with about referring even people to me.
It's like, He's, you know, one of the things is like, the majority of people are not willing to work that hard to take care of themselves to be in those spots, like, cause this comes out with people are like, well, do I have to have surgery for my meniscus or do I have to have back surgery for my disc? And it's like, the studies really show us that no, that the longterm outcomes, whether you have surgery or not are.
No different. Yeah, the difference is the timeline it takes to get to that long term outcome and the the journey on that long term outcome. And so it's like, if you want to put in the work and do the work to like strengthen things and keep your swelling at a minimum and like improve your mechanics, which often looks like taking steps back in the weight room before you can like get stronger, right?
And it also looks like literally doing something for your body every single day. Yeah. I'm like, I always tell people like, here are the options. You could do surgery and it like, fixes the, the pathological thing. And so the recovery can start then, right? So it's a faster process. Or you can use your body to deal with the pathology and like, rehab it, but it's a longer timeline.
Potentially. And not only a longer timeline, but it, it, it requires more investment of your time and money. Yeah. Or the option is like you could do nothing, right? There's always three options. You could do the short, the, the shortcut, the, the long one or nothing. And the short one and the long one ultimately have the same long term outcome.
But the, obviously nothing is not ideal. But it's also, I always tell people like, you're a grown ass adult. It's your choice. Right. I'm not here to shame you or to convince you that one is better than the other. I'm not you, I don't know that. I'm like, there's no shame in picking the shortcut and, and I think medicine sometimes is that for people.
People don't want to work on their bodies. People don't want to take care of themselves all the time. It's often feels easier to just take a pill. Most people, if given the option, especially if like, let's say now too, the pill didn't have a side effect to like. Which one would you take? Obviously the faster route.
Exactly. So I feel like sometimes doctors don't even like Let people know that it's an option to not be on the thing. Like there's no second, longer option. Right. Because they're, they're inundated with hundreds and thousands of people in their practice that want the short outcome. Like just want the easy way out.
And, um, so it's like they almost forget, you know, they become disheartened a little bit of like it's even an option. And so, you know, it's rare, you, you're the type of patient that. I mean, you're a good doctor can probably attest to it is like rare, like he'll see one of you for probably every thousand other patients, to be honest.
Yeah. And so, um, that I always tell people, like, you have a choice and at any time, you have the option to change your mind in either direction. Of course. And so, but I'm like, it's, but it's always important that you know, you have a choice. And so, um. That's great. Like, and, and like I said, like, hopefully people just realize, you know, from your story that they do have a choice and there's also tools that help them in that decision making, you know, It never has to be one or the other, right?
Daniela Spear: I have this conversation a lot too with people think that like, it either has to be like Western medicine or Eastern medicine and the two like cannot meet in the middle. Well, like that's, that's actually my story, right? I, I was on medication for 15 years, but medication actually like gave me the head space to be able to make the changes that I needed to.
And then I was able to get off medication when I, when I was at a place where I no longer needed it. Right. Where my body said, we no longer need this. Yeah, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Um, but I, I laugh when you were talking about the, the two different options. I laugh because it kind of reminds me of like, you know, both you and I are in business, like we're entrepreneurs, we have our own businesses and, you know, when you are creating offers for clients, you, you know, you have the.
Business messaging of like, you, you wanna like, get fast results for your clients. You wanna give them easy wins and you, that's like the, the offers that are gonna sell the, the fastest. Right? Yeah. And I have such a hard time reconciling with that because like, my approach is not the like fast and easy route to like we're, I mean, we're talking about helping people.
Remodel and restructure their immune systems, right? Like that's not like a quick fix, but like, I'm trying to sell people. I'm like, here, change your whole identity around autoimmune disease and like how you identify as a person and start to change these things in your life. Like, do you think that is an easy stuff?
No, absolutely not. But I, I'm very confident that I, I, and I believe that it gives people the. Longest outcome, right? And the most sustainable outcome in the long run. And I think that people, at least like, you know, the clients I've worked with, like, they have, like, being able to just see my clients go from being deep in the trenches of identifying as the disease that.
They were diagnosed with to learning to interact with their body in a much different way and then to realize I'm a whole person. I'm a whole person that just happens to experience these symptoms. Um, as a result of the experiences I've had, the environment I live in, the environment that I carry within myself, uh, if I can contribute and create the problem, then I can contribute and address the problem and be the solution.
Right. And it's amazing. And it's so amazing to be able to like, be a part of that journey for people and to, you know, to use movement as a tool for that, to, to show people. That they can be autonomous that they can have control and they aren't, um, they don't have to live at the mercy of this diagnosis for the rest of their lives.
Right? Right. Um, which, which I get I, I was in that place to of saying, like. I'll never be able to travel because I'll always have like these really expensive medical bills and like I'll never be able to be like too far away from my doctor in case I, I need him. And I'll never be able to, I, I don't know, like there, it was just a lot of things that like where lupus was like the center of my life.
And I made decisions out of what was Possible with like with lupus. Yeah. Now like I am the center of my life and I'm making decisions for my life based on the things that I want and I just happen to Experience autoimmune symptoms on occasion when I am under arrested and overly stressed So it's like a very different perspective.
Yeah. Yes it it It sometimes is a hard sell to get people to take the slower, longer route, because of course you want immediate results and you want to feel better quicker. Yes, like, there's no denying that, but I think that the longer, slower approach is eons more in benefit.
Anna Hartman: Yeah, for sure. Well, and it's one of those things that, you know, not to turn this into like a business lesson, but it's like, this is, I've always, My biggest thing, you know, as I've been in business, I'm coming on 10 years now is like realizing, like, even though you want to help everyone and you know, you could help everyone, not everybody is ready to change.
Not everybody's ready for you. And that means not everyone is the right person for you. Like, not all athletes are the right person for me, and I know that, and I've gotten to the point where even if they think they are, like, within the first session, I know if they really are or not. Like, I will know, like, you're not, you're not my guy.
And, and also, like, being okay with that. And being okay with kind of like the thing, like at any time they can change and become the person that's appropriate. And so like, you know, in terms of your business, it's like what you're doing is showing people what's possible and letting them know that it's a journey.
But you have the tools to help them. Yeah. And if they're ready to take that long journey, like you're there for them. You're not promising them an overnight thing, but you're promising them hope, possibility, and tools to assist in their journey.
Daniela Spear: Yeah. It's that second chance, right? Yeah. It's like learning to interact with your body.
Differently than you had before, because it's first way worked, right? Yeah, it still be there. Exactly. And it's a second chance. And like, for me, that's what it's always been about. It's just like having, right. Having this remade approach, like doing it differently than it was done the first time to have a better outcome.
Anna Hartman: Mm hmm. Yeah, I love that. You know, and yeah, and just, yeah, changing. I always tell people like when you're, when you're changing belief systems, like it comes with a lot of dissonance. It's like, it's even in, even when it's a belief that you don't want to have, like you didn't want to be the person that couldn't leave home because they didn't have the money because of medical bills and they didn't want to be away from your doctor.
You didn't want that belief, but that was your deeply held belief. And when that. When somebody challenges that it feels uncomfortable.
Daniela Spear: Yeah, and so there is like Changing paradigms changing belief systems. It's not like oh, I'm just gonna change my mind. It's like no it is It is a fight and it doesn't feel very good at first things are so ingrained into your body into like your navigation system that it It is very uncomfortable to redirect and reframe those thoughts or to even just like acknowledge that those thoughts are there Then there's like very limiting belief systems are present and Like you mentioned that like those thoughts like when when you were challenged when you're confronted with those and those create anger like yeah people in the autoimmune community like often just want to focus on the emotions that Result have been a result of being diagnosed.
Yeah, and I often have to be the one to break the news to them Like no, those were the emotions that were present and help to create that disease to begin with right? and so can like starting to unpack those is A heavy, but really, really important part of healing the body, because you mentioned earlier, like being angry, but I think just like holding any emotion, no matter what emotion it is, does keep you in that fight or flight, like on a very low grade chronic.
Level over a long period of time and you never truly rest until that emotion is acknowledged
Anna Hartman: So good. Well, I know we're getting towards the end of our time so I don't want to go over. Um, but is there any sort of like Last things that you want to say to the people before we go, I mean, we, we talked about a lot.
Daniela Spear: I mean, there's so much talk about one of the best messages that I can give to anyone experiencing autoimmune disease, like, whether or not you have. A diagnosis is that your body's not wrong and actually your body is your best friend. Yeah. If you can learn to see your body as your best friend and trust that it is always working for your good, for your benefit, the relationship that you develop with your own body is the tool that you need for healing.
Like that relationship is the center. of your healing process, like no matter what approach you take, right? Yeah. But rather you take like the faster, the slow approach, like knowing that your body is always working for you, even when it seems like it doesn't, right? And like knowing that those symptoms, the things you experience that you have been told are wrong, are actually correct responses.
And when you start to see like what has created those responses, like Oh, like you begin to have so much more compassion for your body and so much more understanding and like, I feel like I was getting so emotional about it's just like, you know, like, if I had known this years, decades ago, like, I think my story would have been different, but, you know, of course, things always happen as they're meant to, but, like, I oftentimes, like, just hold so much, I still hold so much sadness for, like, sick Daniela and everything that she went through just to survive, just to be, just to, like, survive and get by, because that's all that I knew at the time, but, like, looking back now and, like, realizing but, That everything my body was experiencing was a true and good response.
Like, I just have so much compassion and so much love. Like, I just wish I could just hug like my, my 15 year old self. And like, I often tell the story about when I came home from my first chemotherapy treatment and the very next morning, I was just like. crying and getting my backpack together because I had to go to school and my mom was like, what are you doing?
And I was like, I have to go to school. I have to be normal. And I just, I think back to that moment often. And I just want to like, go back to that time and like, give myself a hug. And, like, tell myself, like, you don't have to go to school today, like, you know, like, you don't have to, like, prove to the world that you are more than this disease, right?
Like, it's taking things from the perspective of my body is my best friend. Like, there's, there's nothing to prove there. Right. It's just knowing and holding that space for yourself. Yeah. I love that. If I can impart any wisdom to your listeners. Yeah. Yeah. Your body is your best friend.
Anna Hartman: Yeah. I mean, that always, I mean, I'm the same, like whenever we, that's often like my parting words for people too, is your body's working for you, not against you.
Yeah. And, um. Man. Yeah. When you realize that you come with so much more kindness to yourself and when you come with kindness to yourself, you tend to come to kindness with others in the world too. So, um, and yes, I, I feel the sadness part of it too, because you realize all the times that you were so not kind to yourself and it makes me sad.
Yeah, but it's also like, hey, remembering that and like, changing it. Exactly. Exactly. A second chance. So speaking of a second chance and being remade, uh, you have a podcast, right?
Daniela Spear: I do. I have a recently launched podcast called the Remade Life Podcast. And In that podcast, I share a lot about my journey of being diagnosed and getting to a point of being off medication and then how I've incorporated strength training and exercise and how movement has just been a very important piece of that journey.
And I would encourage you to follow along if you are someone, you know, experiences autoimmune disease. I would love for you to share that podcast with them. Yeah, yeah.
Anna Hartman: So I'll, I'll link that in the show notes and then people can work with you virtually, right? Or in person?
Daniela Spear: Yes. So I have a virtual and in person opportunities if you are local.
Um, to where I am in North Carolina, um, but I offer restorative body work sessions and a lot of those sessions involve what I have learned from you, Anna, and I guide my clients through the LTAP, those movement assessments to help them identify where their body is holding tension and. That process is a peeling back of layers of starting to peel back the layers of, you know, of learning how your body communicates, you know, what do these symptoms that you're experiencing, what is it telling you about your body's experience?
And then we use movement to help release and start to restore those healing pathways in the body. I love that.
Anna Hartman: Well, I will provide all the links for um, everyone to connect with you and connect with you, um, listen to your podcast, connect with you on Instagram and website and she's got a great newsletter too.
Daniela Spear: So I do have a free resource. Oh yeah. If you don't mind me sharing. Oh, yeah, I wrote an ebook earlier this year. It's called unlocking your body secrets, understanding your emotions and healing chronic symptoms. And in that ebook, I talk about the importance of the mind body connection of reestablishing.
That connection, uh, you know, between all the systems and then I talk about the importance of the nervous system and the threat bucket like we talked about today. And then I also have a chart in there, uh, can help to help you guide and narrow in on what possible unresolved emotions you may be experiencing or what the emotions underlying the symptoms that you are experiencing as well.
And of course, if you know me, I'm very good at like. Asking very reflective questions, so of course there are some reflection questions in there to also help you reconnect with your body.
Anna Hartman: I love that. Yes, I'll make sure to link that in the show notes as well. Thank you. And it's a great resource. So, well, thank you so much for joining me.
I really appreciate it. And I'm excited to, um, I'm just excited to see how your business will grow and your effect on your community and, um, on the world and the industry really. So, um, thank you for Doing what you're doing.
Daniela Spear: Oh, thank you, Anna. I literally couldn't have done it without you. Uh, you have been such an important part of my journey and growing, um, not just personally and in like my own healthcare practice, but professionally as well. Like I love learning from you and a lot of what I do, um, stems from your work. So thank you.
Anna Hartman: You're welcome. My pleasure. Alright, um, that's it for today's episode, so, uh, check out the show notes and check out Daniela, and I'll see you guys next week. Bye! Bye!
